When I started off on Flickr I used to take terrible shots (and I had been shooting for 17 years). You can see for yourself http://www.flickr.com/photos/pvs2007/ if you go to the last few pages and in those days you never got 100 comments and 200 faves. There were a couple of people who might still like your photo but the key was to look for "good" photographers and "virtual groups" where you could see some classy shots and invite criticism so that you can change your perspective to take better shots. One such group is "Make it a Mega Shot" which is run by Cyrus Khamak and a few Flickr contacts. My photography improved leaps and bounds in a matter of a few months and so has the clicking ability of a lot of people I know. The reason was simple, we were not in a race to garner "nice" comments
About comments and criticism: Yes, everyone likes a "nice" comment, including me and I would be lying if I said I don't look at that column everyday against a photo I uploaded BUT that is not the be all and end all (if you consider yourself in the 10% or less, of course).
If you ask for criticism on Flickr you do get it and get it real bad. That's because you are BAD, accept it and life will be much better. There will be photos you think are amazing and will be the flavor of the day on Flickr and suddenly one guy will come and tear it apart, it has happened and rather than having a sullen face just get on with the next shot.
NEVER BE DEFENSIVE else people will stop critiquing your photos, unless that's what you want. There is nothing called "constructive criticism, mild criticism etc etc". Criticism is criticism, period. You have the heart to take it then you might improve, else languish in your current state forever
The "Explore" rush: Yes, getting your photo on to explore is a definite thrill. Flickr says it is among 500 photos of a particular day and it is also ranked and the top few photos appear on the 1st page for a few minutes. Great, but what does it mean to you? You do surely get more people to see your photo, which is awesome BUT it surely does not necessarily mean that your photo is classy. A lot of crappy photos get into Explore too. An algorithm decides which photo goes into Explore and it heavily depends on the number of comments, faves, views you get within a short time from the time of posting the picture. A lot of "I scratch your back and you scratch mine" goes on in this race. People leave "nice comments" on any and every photo just so that those guys do the same on theirs and suddenly you have an "Explore" photo. But one simple question at the end: what has this done to improving the way you click???
I am not against getting photos on Explore or enjoying the time it gets there but again apart from giving you that viewership it really does not add any value to your photo taking abilities in anyway. And it is not a tale of sour grapes, I have had 67 of my photos on Explore at some point, even now I think 3 are there
The worst thing to do: Do NOT ask for critiques if you don't have the appetite for them. If you want "nice" comments from people who do not understand photography go ahead and enjoy but don't do it under the garb on someone who is out there to become a "serious" photographer and "learn" from fellow Flickrites, you will be disrobed very soon as it will be come apparent over a period of time that you don't like people not liking your photo and the fact will be visible to everyone that you aren't improving either!
I know this sounds like a very negative post but I had to write for the 10% or less, as I mentioned earlier-they probably will realize the value of this
I'm not sure which percent I fall into... (the 10% or the 90%)... but I know and have seen the rat race you are talking about. :)And the "I scratch your back and you scratch mine" that goes into it.
ReplyDeleteGuess all that scratching... makes them sore. :D
@ asking critique... guess that's a fad.
Nobody can walk up and ask others... "please say 'nice' @ my pics... " So they put it in a fashionable way and say... please be critical. But they aren't prepared or looking for the criticism.
PV... I am not a photographer. I don't even see myself as a serious photographer in near future. At best I can say I am a photoenthusiast. But even that is aglossed-up term.
But one thing that really frustrates and irritates even me... is when snap-shooters who are no better than I am... claim that they are serious and aspiring professional photographers.
So I can imagine how frustrating it would be for someone like you... who takes pain and time to craft each of his pics... to see such crappy snap-shooters trying to seek public attention.
What amazes me... is that at flickr...some really good photographers... while well aware of this back scratching policy... still play along with it and post wows at crappy and ok-ish shots. That keeps the policy of back scratching... running.
First of all, I am not a professional photographer and neither am I a writer. The only commonality between me and the author lies in the fact that both of us have a Flickr account. I dare not say photography as he is a far superior photographer than I am. Notwithstanding the above, here are a few points that I would like to bring to the notice of Mr Subramanian PV ( PV).
ReplyDeleteFirstly,every artform has a point of view. Else we all would be looking at the same kind of photographs or for that matter be listening to similar kind of music. So, no matter how crappy a shot might look to you , it may attract the attention of another individual.
Secondly, I have not come across the definition of a good photograph. Framing, perspective,positioning of the point of interest(rule of third) or any other aspect considered necessary for a good shot have been suitably modified or refuted in many famous / popular shots(I am assuming that people liked them or they would not have become popular).
( this one is for Jitu)
Thirdly, there are good professionals and there are bad professionals. The very fact that a photographer is earning his bread by shooting validates the fact that his work has some takers. So all crappy shooting professionals have people who consider his/her work worth spending their hard earned money on.This again brings us back to point no one.
Flickr might have corruption in taste or intention,but a photographer knows in his heart where he/ she stands and here is where I would like to whole heartedly support Mr Subramanian PV.
ps I overlooked one more commonality- Both of us posess some versions of Canon products.
To anonymous... wrt crappy professionals...
ReplyDeletePORN also sells. So??
MR. Anonymous...
ReplyDeleteWhy refer to my words?? You are a visitor to the author's blog... please reply him... not the other readers who have nothing to do with you.
Who the heck are you anyway??
Since you are going about with the name "Anonymous"... I would hazard a guess you are a NOBODY.
So MR. Nobody... please do not go around referring to and replying people you do not know.
Spare others the agony of having to reply to a "behind the cloak" nobody.
Mr/Ms Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteMy whole contention is with the point you made about "someone liking the photograph". The question is not about how many like your photograph because there will ALWAYS be some people who like every photograph. The whole question is do YOU like your results and do YOU see improvement areas in YOUR shots. As long as you are getting "nice" comments-which you always will, there is no scope for improvement
Dear Mr PV
ReplyDeleteI do understand your point of view agree to what u have brought out .Surpassing ones own self is a never ending process.
By the way, this is not personal and contrary to what you mentioned i rarely get more than 10 comments on my shots.But I do agree that a "nice shot" is an impersonal gesture to attract comments . If i get a comment which describes or discusses a certain aspect of my shot, it feels good to be both appreciated or torn apart. both ways i tend to gain.
@ Jitu
If I am NOBODY , you need not lose sleep over my point of view. You did exactly what you asked me not to do.So dont play "Sweet Mary Jane".By the way...Porn ain't crappy.If you feel so , so be it. Regards.